The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks Discussion

[Erik Schröder]

I've already pre-ordered the game.

[Dan]

Just a complete stab in the dark: Hundreds of years have passed since Ph. The islands of the great sea have grown together and there is a new Zelda.

Islands... don't grow together... ever...  Well, scientifically speaking I suppose they could, but when they use island that way they mean one that is really really incredibly small... like the size of an atom or maybe a molecule. 

And Santuli, while sequels often do take place outside of Hyrule (except for AoL), it's possible that this game is a sequel to WW and PH.  That hasn't been confirmed or denied yet, but if it is a sequel, then we're on uncharted territory: the third game with the same Link.  That's never happened before, and it would break that one rule I always liked touting: "Maximum of two games per Link."  And since that's never happened before, it's probable that the rest of the happenings related to this will be unpredictable as well.

[Santuli]

Just a complete stab in the dark: Hundreds of years have passed since Ph. The islands of the great sea have grown together and there is a new Zelda.

Islands... don't grow together... ever...  Well, scientifically speaking I suppose they could, but when they use island that way they mean one that is really really incredibly small... like the size of an atom or maybe a molecule. 

Especially since, in the Great Sea, the islands are actually mountain tops of the old Hyrule...I dont see how those would move in together...

And Santuli, while sequels often do take place outside of Hyrule (except for AoL), it's possible that this game is a sequel to WW and PH.  That hasn't been confirmed or denied yet, but if it is a sequel, then we're on uncharted territory: the third game with the same Link.  That's never happened before, and it would break that one rule I always liked touting: "Maximum of two games per Link."  And since that's never happened before, it's probable that the rest of the happenings related to this will be unpredictable as well.

Really? Well, Link and Zelda look the same, but they already found new land and have established a new kingdom...in the span of how many years? You would have noticed a change in their ages if that were the case. That's why I doubt they are the same ones, not because of the pattern we've always seen so far. That doesnt confirm anything, and its not what I used to support this.

[Dan]

Maybe they used the Triforce or magic to establish the land, I dunno. 

What you're using to support this is a logic based upon something circumstantial, as is the "evidence" in support of my theory.  So when all we have is circumstantial evidence that could have no bearing on it at all, how accurate can our theories be?  Perceived slight incongruity in a continuity that hasn't even been examined by the developers yet, or similar art style/technology/character designs?  It's a toss-up the way I see it.

[Poewarrior]

Okay, well my main complaints for spirit tracks so far are
1) Can we not have the WW art style in another game?  It's been used in WW, FS, FSA, MC and PH which is ridiculous.  Before, we saw zelda getting a visual overhaul every 2 games, and now it seems to be stagnating.  The cel-shaded was pretty fresh and neat in WW but now it is terribly overused and should be shelved.
2) Not fond of there being another Zelda game so soon after Phantom Hourglass on the same system, probably isn't going to be very different.

But I got excited when I read there was going to be a train.  We'll see how it goes.

[Santuli]

What you're using to support this is a logic based upon something circumstantial, as is the "evidence" in support of my theory.  So when all we have is circumstantial evidence that could have no bearing on it at all, how accurate can our theories be?  Perceived slight incongruity in a continuity that hasn't even been examined by the developers yet, or similar art style/technology/character designs?  It's a toss-up the way I see it.

Considering Nintendo always places careful detail into their Zelda games, I dont see what's wrong with my logic at all. I'd be more disappointed if this is indeed a direct sequel to PH and they just "magically" rebuilt an entire kingdom in the span of one or two years, populated it and everything, and still have enough time for legends or myths, or sacred places/artifacts/etc to be found in the new, previously unpopulated, land.

Honestly, I prefer to see it the logical way. I dont see why it cant be applied to Zelda, it always made sense in the past.

[Dan]

Considering Nintendo always places careful detail into their Zelda games, I dont see what's wrong with my logic at all. I'd be more disappointed if this is indeed a direct sequel to PH and they just "magically" rebuilt an entire kingdom in the span of one or two years, populated it and everything, and still have enough time for legends or myths, or sacred places/artifacts/etc to be found in the new, previously unpopulated, land.

Care to elaborate?  For example, what does careful detail have to do with whether this is a WW/PH sequel or not?

[MRLN]

SCENARIO 1 (plausible)
Tetra and Link were children, and they must've found a new land to settle.  Trains don't magically appear when you settle a land.  It takes many years to develop that sort of technology.  By the time something like trains happened, generations should have gone by.

SCENARIO 2 (not so much)
Tetra and Link find an already inhabited land that has developed trains.  Link arbitrarily wants to become a conductor and Tetra usurps the throne.  Uhhh... that's not very likely.

SCENARIO 3 (equally plausible as the first)
It is before the flood, but after Twilight Princess and even the original.  This is the only time it could exist before TWW because have any of you seen train tracks in a Zelda game before?  Also, the castle looks the same, so it could be Hyrule still. 

Oh yeah, and that statue people were complaining about?  It's a dungeon gimmick, like the statue in the Temple of Time.

[Santuli]

Considering Nintendo always places careful detail into their Zelda games, I dont see what's wrong with my logic at all. I'd be more disappointed if this is indeed a direct sequel to PH and they just "magically" rebuilt an entire kingdom in the span of one or two years, populated it and everything, and still have enough time for legends or myths, or sacred places/artifacts/etc to be found in the new, previously unpopulated, land.

Care to elaborate?  For example, what does careful detail have to do with whether this is a WW/PH sequel or not?

They would not let all this appear magically, especially now that they are taking care to connect their games so much more. You always get tiny little things that make you go back to the past in Zelda history and remember moments, or just details that connect games together. TP, for example, is full of them tying itself to OoT, like the black and white picture of the Fishing Hole guy in OoT in TP's Fishing Hole.

No, they would not use "magic" or "the Triforce" to magically build an entire kingdom, populate it, etc, etc.

Dont try to make your "magic" theory seem equally valid than this one, because its not.

SCENARIO 3 (equally plausible as the first)
It is before the flood, but after Twilight Princess and even the original.  This is the only time it could exist before TWW because have any of you seen train tracks in a Zelda game before?  Also, the castle looks the same, so it could be Hyrule still. 

One problem though. Twilight Princess and The Wind Waker are in opposite timelines, the flood occurring in only one of them. TP is completely unrelated to the flood. So this is either after OoT, but before TWW, or after PH.

Oh yeah, and that statue people were complaining about?  It's a dungeon gimmick, like the statue in the Temple of Time.

Yea they seem to be an element of dungeons in ST.

I wonder if there is a connection to Bellum's Phantoms though. They look similar, so I wonder if PH's story will be related to this one. Or not, idk. I do wonder if Ganondorf will ever revive in this timeline.

Oh, and by the way, if he doesnt then...the Master Sword won't return. This is interesting...think about this. Ganondorf was left dead (though turned to stone) in the flooded Hyrule, the Master Sword stuck in his head. But if this takes place in a new land...they'd be very far away from him. Were they trying to get rid of the MS and Ganondorf on this side of the Zelda universe? Or might they still make a return?

I think that we probably wont see one without the other.

[MRLN]

It's pretty much impossible for Ganondorf to come back...  maybe there will be a new enemy with a rich backstory!

MRLN expects too much from this game.  MRLN'd better wait for the next Wii Zelda.

[Santuli]

Maybe! Maybe Bellum returns, I dont know.

I do wonder what sort of sacred weapon Link will wield this time, though!

There doesnt HAVE to be one, of course. MM had no particular one, for example. You could finish the game with the one you started, but still. A new Hyrule must bring in new legends of sorts

[MRLN]

The Legend of Sally.

Eh...  I dunno.

[Dan]

SCENARIO 1 (plausible)
Tetra and Link were children, and they must've found a new land to settle.  Trains don't magically appear when you settle a land.  It takes many years to develop that sort of technology.  By the time something like trains happened, generations should have gone by.

Not really.  They already had mine carts for many years before the events of PH, and I've recently been told that they had a steam engine in that.  Given those resources, a train is pretty easy to make.  The tracks might take awhile to lay down, but it wouldn't take a year by any means other than assigning one crippled old man who has no hands to do it.

SCENARIO 3 (equally plausible as the first)
It is before the flood, but after Twilight Princess and even the original.

You lost me there.  See, the developers of TP have already stated it takes place in an alternate timeline from Wind Waker. 

No, they would not use "magic" or "the Triforce" to magically build an entire kingdom, populate it, etc, etc.

You are not them.  And they've used the Triforce for other things aplenty before, so why wouldn't they use it to rebuild the kingdom of the race that have constantly been said to be the gods' favorites/chosen ones?

Dont try to make your "magic" theory seem equally valid than this one, because its not.

How isn't it, then?  Got some evidence other than "they wouldn't do that"?  Because before this game's announcement, the general consensus was that they wouldn't put trains into a Zelda game.

[Santuli]

SCENARIO 1 (plausible)
Tetra and Link were children, and they must've found a new land to settle.  Trains don't magically appear when you settle a land.  It takes many years to develop that sort of technology.  By the time something like trains happened, generations should have gone by.

Not really.  They already had mine carts for many years before the events of PH, and I've recently been told that they had a steam engine in that.  Given those resources, a train is pretty easy to make.  The tracks might take awhile to lay down, but it wouldn't take a year by any means other than assigning one crippled old man who has no hands to do it.

I didnt mean it that way. For example, in the few previous games before ST (PH, TWW, and OoT), tehre are no cart tracks. Most all other games that feature them are in the other timeline. Plus so much knowledge was lost when Hyrule was flooded. Civilization revolved around the sea for ages.

I meant to point out that trains are not an inconceivable idea, not necessarily that you can logically pick out the progress from the beginning of time in Zelda to ST and say that it was indeed a very simple matter to accomplish.

You are not them.

"Them" don't have a mind of their own.

And they've used the Triforce for other things aplenty before, so why wouldn't they use it to rebuild the kingdom of the race that have constantly been said to be the gods' favorites/chosen ones?

"Care to elaborate?"
Besides the part where Link and Tetra ended their TWW adventure without having the Triforce in their possession.

[Dan]

SCENARIO 1 (plausible)
Tetra and Link were children, and they must've found a new land to settle.  Trains don't magically appear when you settle a land.  It takes many years to develop that sort of technology.  By the time something like trains happened, generations should have gone by.

Not really.  They already had mine carts for many years before the events of PH, and I've recently been told that they had a steam engine in that.  Given those resources, a train is pretty easy to make.  The tracks might take awhile to lay down, but it wouldn't take a year by any means other than assigning one crippled old man who has no hands to do it.

I didnt mean it that way. For example, in the few previous games before ST (PH, TWW, and OoT), tehre are no cart tracks. Most all other games that feature them are in the other timeline. Plus so much knowledge was lost when Hyrule was flooded. Civilization revolved around the sea for ages.

What way did you mean it in, since you weren't even the person who said anything? 

Civilization revolved around the sea for ages, what's your point?  If they found a large expanse of land, I doubt they'd revolve around the sea again.  How much knowledge was lost when Hyrule was flooded?  It says somewhere that they became a highly advanced society before their downfall, then?  Could you please point it out?  I haven't had the liberty to play PH if it is in there that Hyrule's pre-flood history is flushed out.  I doubt that it is, though, since PH takes place in an entirely different land than Hyrule or the ocean above it.

Mine carts existed in Hyrule before the timeline split as well.

You are not them.

"Them" don't have a mind of their own.

What are you implying?  You are not the man who they go to for their ideas is what I was implying, whether you wish you were or not.  And now you're saying the Zelda developers have no free will or thought processes of their own, like they're some kind of hive mind or something?

"Care to elaborate?"
Besides the part where Link and Tetra ended their TWW adventure without having the Triforce in their possession.

The sacred realm is shown to exist not in a specific point but on an extraplanar level.  If the Triforce has been made whole again and it vanished when King Hyrule made his wish, where is it that you think it went?  You think that it just ceased to exist or something?

[Santuli]

You're just going around the issue, I'm tired of explaining. Im not in the mood. Your stubbornness exceeds me today, sorry.

[Henrie]

We had this discussion about the islands growing together before. The great Deku tree said in the windwaker that he hopes that one day the island grow together courtesy of the koroks that are planting seeds on the different islands. While you can explain this in different ways I really believe that the islands can grow together. It's fantasy after all. It is possible. Well, I know that I am the only one on this site that believes it but that doesn't change my opinion.

No one knows why Link and Tetra went out for other seas at the end of Windwaker. Maybe they just craved another adventure. Why would Tetra and Link leave the great sea, their home forever? Maybe Link and Tetra returned at the great sea after Ph and started to built a castle on one of the islands. And maybe Link just returned to outset island.

I think that if the princess would forever leave the great sea, that would be very irresponsible from her. The great sea IS basically the new Hyrule. And Hyrule needs her.

To go a little bit off-topic (just a little): Now that there will be a new DS zelda this year I fear chances of a new wii zelda this year are slim. Maybe we will see it at E3 or at their autumn event, but I do not think it will be released this year.

[Andrew "LK" Wight]

Okay, well my main complaints for spirit tracks so far are
1) Can we not have the WW art style in another game?  It's been used in WW, FS, FSA, MC and PH which is ridiculous.  Before, we saw zelda getting a visual overhaul every 2 games, and now it seems to be stagnating.  The cel-shaded was pretty fresh and neat in WW but now it is terribly overused and should be shelved.

Wow, you actually dislike that style? Imagine how terrible a realistic Zelda would look on the DS? A 2D one would look fine, but the DS is all about the 3D, so no style other than Cel-Shaded would work well. Plus, I actually like the style. The Wind Waker's visuals at the time blew me away, and though PH's visuals weren't on par with TWW, they still looked great.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind if they went Cel-Shaded for every Zelda game. It looks fine.

[Santuli]

No one knows why Link and Tetra went out for other seas at the end of Windwaker. Maybe they just craved another adventure. Why would Tetra and Link leave the great sea, their home forever? Maybe Link and Tetra returned at the great sea after Ph and started to built a castle on one of the islands. And maybe Link just returned to outset island.

I think that if the princess would forever leave the great sea, that would be very irresponsible from her. The great sea IS basically the new Hyrule. And Hyrule needs her.

lol, the whole point was to erase Old Hyrule from history. Why would they flood it twice and then have her rebuild "Hyrule" in the same place (when there is not even any land"

Read this:

Daphnes: He who touches it will have whatever he desires granted... That is
what you said, is it not, Ganondorf? Gods of the Triforce! Hear that which I
desire! Hope! I desire hope for these children! Give them a future! Wash away
this ancient land of Hyrule! Let a ray of hope shine on the future of the
world!!!
(The Triforce glows.)
Daphnes: And let our destinies finally be fulfilled... Ganondorf! May you drown
with Hyrule!!!
(The Triforce splits apart.)
(Ganon laughs.)
(Water rains down and surrounds Ganon's Tower.)
Ganon: This is foolishness... A future... for you?
(Link gets up.)
Zelda: What are you laughing at, Ganondorf?! You're insane!
(Zelda gives Link the Master Sword.)
Zelda: Link! I'm sorry! I overslept! I think it's time for us to say good-bye
to this place. We must return to the world above! Back to our ocean!
Ganon: Very well, then... Allow me to show you...
(Ganon draws his two swords.)
Ganon: Your future... Yes... Allow me to show you... Just what hope you have...
...See how much your precious Triforce is worth!

(At the beginning of the final battle with Ganon.)
Zelda: I'll use this bow to cover you! Attack him as best as you can!

(After hitting Ganon with the Master Sword a few times while he's stunned by
Light Arrows.)
(Ganon knocks out Zelda.)

(Zelda wakes up.)
Zelda: Link! You have to distract him! Are you ready?! I'll aim for you! And
you use your shield... Do you get it?

S. ENDING

(On top of Ganon’s Tower.)
(Link successfully deflects a Light Arrow from Zelda to hit Ganon to stun him.)
(Link parries and brings the Master Sword down into Ganon’s head.)
Ganon:Ughnn... Heh Heh... The wind... It is blowing...
(Link gets away from Ganon.)
(Ganon turns to stone.)
Zelda: Link!!!
Daphnes: My children... Listen to me. I have lived regretting the past. And I
have faced those regrets. If only I could do things over again... Not a day of
my life has gone by without my thoughts turning to my kingdom of old. I have
lived bound to Hyrule. In that sense, I was the same as Ganondorf. But you... I
want you to live for the future. There may be nothing left for you... But
despite that, you must look forward and walk a path of hope, trusting that it
will sustain you when darkness comes. Farewell... This is the only world that
your ancestors were able to leave you. Please... forgive us.
Zelda: W-Wait! You could... You could come with us!
Daphnes: Yes, of course... We have a ship! We can find it. We WILL find it! The
land that will be the next Hyrule!
Zelda: So…
Daphnes: ...Ah, but child... That land will not be Hyrule. It will be YOUR land!
(Water pours down and surrounds Link and Zelda.)
(Link and Zelda are enveloped in air suits.)
(Link tries to grab Daphnes’ hand and fails.)
(Link floats up towards the surface.)
Daphnes: I have scattered the seeds of the future…
(Link and Tetra wake up floating together in the water.)
(Prince Komali hovers in front of Link and Tetra.)
(Behind them are the pirates waving from the pirate ship.)
(Aryll is on the top deck waving.)
(Tetra waves back at Aryll.)
(Link waves back at Aryll.)
(Medli and Makar are seen near the cabin door on the pirate deck.)
(Prince Komali is seen again hovering in the air near Link and Tetra.)
(The credits roll.)

To go a little bit off-topic (just a little): Now that there will be a new DS zelda this year I fear chances of a new wii zelda this year are slim. Maybe we will see it at E3 or at their autumn event, but I do not think it will be released this year.

Indeed, but that doesnt have to be related to ST being released this year. Two different teams were working on two Zelda games (man, that sounds so good...the thought of TWO Zelda games being made), but considering that one is for the DS and the other for the Wii, the one for DS will probably be done first

Think about it, it already has grounds from which to work on (Phantom Hourglass), and it wont be as big of a game as Zelda Wii.

The other one, though, is being made ground up for the Wii this time. I'm so excited for Zelda now...once again, the whole hype and speculation phase following the announcement of a new Zelda has begun xD

[Henrie]

"lol, the whole point was to erase Old Hyrule from history. Why would they flood it twice and then have her rebuild "Hyrule" in the same place (when there is not even any land"

Eh, you didn't get my point at all. The gods chose certain people who should take refuge at the mountain tops. The mountain tops are the islands and basically form together with the water the new Hyrule. Zelda was also brought to the surface, not only so that the triforce of wisdom would be safe but also because she belongs in the new Hyrule, since the old one is as good as dead. Remember Links awakening? The manual said that the people feared Ganondorf would return, thus Link set sailing to find the Wisdom he needed for if Ganondorf would return. Maybe that's also the case with Ph, since Ph basically is a retelling of La.

I really can picture Tetra and Link returning much wiser at the great sea after Ph. They take a island where there is still place and start building a castle. Or maybe they built it on poles, just as they did with Venetia (the real-world people, mind you).